10 September 2009

Chapter 18 - Separation for Failure to Meet Army Weight Control

I. WHAT IS THE BASIS FOR A CHAPTER 18?  Soldiers who fail to meet the body fat composition/weight control standards set forth in AR.600-9.  Separation action may not be initiated under this chapter until the soldier has been given a reasonable opportunity to comply with reduction goals set for him by health care personnel.

Action will be taken to separate a member when it is clearly established that:  1) Despite attempts to reduce weight or body fat composition the soldier has failed to meet the goals AND 2) The soldier has NOT been diagnosed by health care personnel as having a medical condition which precludes them from participating in the Army body fat composition/weight control program. NOTE: If it has been determined that a soldier is over weight due to a medical problem, the soldier will not be separated under Chapter 18.


II. WHAT MUST THE COMMAND DO BEFORE THEY CAN INITIATE A CHAPTER 18 FOR FAILURE TO MEET ARMY BODY FAT COMPOSITION/WEIGHT CONTROL STANDARDS?

The following must take place, unless waived:

a. You must be weighed and shown to exceed the screening table weight.  If so, you must be taped in order to determine if you exceed the body fat standard.

b.  If you fail the tape test, your commander will then initiate a flag.  After initiating the flag, your commander must enroll you into an overweight program.  Your commander informs you of this fact by memorandum.  Once you acknowledge receipt of this memorandum, the clock starts for the purposes of the possible chapter action.

c.  Your commander must refer you to a nutritionist for nutritional counseling and proper weight-loss counseling.  This is also done by memorandum and must take place as soon as you are enrolled into the program.

d.  Your commander must also refer you to the TMC for medical screening to ensure that you do not have a medical condition which would precluded you from losing weight.  This is also done by memorandum and also must take place when you are enrolled into the program.

e.  After being enrolled in the program, you will be tracked on a monthly basis.  The command will conduct monthly weigh-ins.  If you fail to show improvement in any two consecutive monthly weigh-ins, the command will initiate separation.  If after six months, the commander determines that you have not shown adequate improvement, the commander can either impose a bar to reenlistment or can initiate separation action.

f.  If you meet the body fat standard or the screening weight table as prescribed in AR 600-9, you will be removed from the overweight program.  This removal is done by memorandum and will be kept on file in the unit for the following 36 months. 


III. WHAT ARE YOUR RIGHTS?

a. You have the right to consult with counsel within a reasonable time.
b. You have a right to submit statements on your own behalf.
c. You have a right to obtain copies of documents which your commander will forward in support of his separation recommendation.
d. If you have six or more years in the active service, you have a right to an Administrative separation Board.
e. You have a right to waive the above rights in writing. Failure to respond in seven days (not signing the form) means you give up all your rights.

IV. TYPE OF DISCHARGE. Members separated under this program will be given an Honorable Discharge Certificate.

V. EFFECT OF DISCHARGE ON EDUCATIONAL BENEFITS.  As long as you completed your first term of service, the fact that you are discharged under this Chapter will not impact your educational benefits. 

VII. HOW TO FIGHT BACK IF YOU DID NOT WANT THE DISCHARGE.  The main way of opposing the discharge is to ensure that all of the proper steps have been taken.  If the unit has followed all of the correct steps, you may also try requesting a personal interview with the separation authority, but he does not have to grant you one. Statements from supervisors and co-workers are also very important. Hopefully, your supervisors will recommend that you be retained on active duty.  When you meet with the separation authority, tell him or her that you understand the Army is downsizing, however, you want to remain in the service.  Explain what you have to offer the service and why retaining you, despite being slightly overweight, is the right outcome.

VIII.  OBTAIN A PEACE OF MIND LEGAL REVIEW.  Our office can conduct a thorough review of your chapter paperwork and assist you with your submissions to the the command.  You can look here for more on the peace of mind legal review.

149 comments:

  1. This is happening to me I've been in the Army for 23 years and now I'm force to retire. I didn't make tape in the unit after they taped me a week later after I did make tape. So I put in my paperwork for retirement for next year, two days later my CO inform me that the chain of command wants me out in 3 to 4 months. So I change my paper work to reflect a new retirement for Nov 1 09. It now 28 Sept 09 and haven't yet heard anything for HRC about the retirement. If I knew now from what I've read I would've fought this. Someone in my chain of command should of known about this (CSM or 1S) and inform me of my options, but no did they wanted me out of their organization and this is how they treat their seniors. I feel that a veteran of 23 years should not be treated this way.

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    1. It is time for you to go. You have been in for 23 years and did not know this? You must not be a leader and therefore need to go.

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    2. you had 23 years of service you should know how get around a trigger happy commander. I did. I got all my paper work signed and approved and had orders before the old man new what had just happened.

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    3. you need to take this to the IG office and get their reccomendation and once thats complete and they say the command didn't run the AWCP correct on you then send that paperwork to DA to revoke your retirement. Also for the officer speaking about senior NCOES like that, well let me tell you, there is a double standard in the army when it comes to weight control, their is so many fat officers walking around on active duty and pt failures and because their higher up officers need them due to down sizing and personnel issues they keep them around. i will be the first to tell you that as a Senior NCO and current 1SG I make it my resonsibility to weed those officers out as well, when i see the fat ones i will send them packing to. officers get over to much already.

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    4. It's because of "leaders" like yourself, which is why these things happen. Only if you had read AR's 600-9, 600-8-2, and 601-280. You would have known. Lets assume that with 23 years in the Army you have to be at least an E-6, perhaps an E-7. Ergo a leader and a mentor. You are expected to know these things. You are the reason there is so much apathy and inefficiency in the Army, not to mention lack of leadership. It is in the best interest of the Army to have you forcibly be retired.

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    5. Lol to the anonymous comments, stfu.... LOL i cant help but laugh at you... the Army in general is falling to shits because 2001 came around and they let morons and more morons in,,, highschool drop outs, criminals, etc... the army is full of trash, egotistical morons out for revenge and their only hope in life of leading is having their hand held the rest of their life in the military.. the us army is the ultimate joke of jokes... overweight is a problem in it on top of education, respect, and etc... the army it's self lacks the army values... the army is a prison and if you stay in because your to pussy to get out and make it in the real world then sad for you...

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    6. Just had a question, I've been hearing around the grape vine that soldiers are getting paid when they get chaptered out if they have 6 years in service or more, somebody please tell me this isn't true

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    7. yeah right be happy you got past twenty years

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  2. I am currently in this same position. I pray for an honorable discharge I have work my self hard for two years supporting and sustaining the unit's arms room both in and out of theatre. I deserve an honorable discharge for my past service.

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    1. Chapter 18 Line E states the only discharge possible is Honorable.

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    2. that isn't true, I have a soldier now who is getting out on Chapter 18 with a general discharge.

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  3. What a waste of tax-payer money. We have people in the Army who have worked hard to serve their country and this is happening. Why? Why to just a select few? Someone who Wants to serve his country should be given every opportunity to do so. Our servicemen and women were not treated like this when the DRAFT was in effect. There were physicals, yes, but, did it matter if your neck size correlated with your waist? And, were you discharged after over a year of SPECIALIZED training, because you are a BIG guy and weigh <5 pounds more than regulations allow, even though you passed the PT test? OR, you were so concerned about passing PT test that you HYDRATED yourself really well, AND THEN, you were 2 inches overr waist measurement allowed when taped the same day as PT test???? What gives? No disrespect intended, but who are our soldiers? BIG, STRONG MEN????f Or, movie stars and television models?

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    1. My commander has just now moved on and under her 3 commands she has put over over 1000 soldiers. I wonder how can she sleep at night? She actually thinks she is helping people. And now after 12 years i was going to RCP next year but i too have seem to fail tape now, my second time in a year. I was told i passed then less than 30 days later my wife found out i failed tape before me or anyone in my NCO support channel knew. What a horrible commander.

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    2. As a former Army Officer, I can only say that meeting the standard is not optional. I am shocked to hear people say that they are "owed" a position in the military because they served. When you entered, you agreed to follow all orders and regulations. Being overweight means you do not meet the standard. I could not chapter anyone, for nearly any reason (drugs, misconduct, obesity) in 2009 or 2010. I'm very glad to know that those Soldiers that I was forced to put on TOC duty because they were unfit and incapable of conducting our combat patrols no longer get a free pass. As to the NCO with 23 years in, I saw a lot of you in my time. You of all people should know that being overweight means you are failing to meet the standard. Soldiers look up to you. You set the standard. Stop whining about how awful you are and take some personal responsibility for your fitness. As to medical concerns, if you are legitimately diagnosed with a medical condition, you have much more time to meet the standards. Bottom line: don't get fat, meet the standard, and keep performing.

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    3. She is being ordered to separate people. It's not her fault, she is following orders that come down from the Army Chief of Staff. You may not realize this but there's a drawdown going on, and this is just the tip of the spear. Watch--in the coming two years, you are going to see people tossed out left and right. Promotions will become more difficult and the slightest infraction will be magnified. That's what "force shaping" is all about. For the next war, it will be Navy people who are needed--not Army. They have strict weight requirements too.

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    4. good idea, lets just throw out every regulation. then we don't have to worry about taking orders or violating anything. yes, let's try that.........

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    5. I'm glad you are a "former" officer. You don't have to have a medical condition to have a different body composition. The Army's standard for weight was created at a time when appearance was more important than performance. Just because a soldier is over weight does not mean he can't perform his duties to the same level as his peers. And don't compare broke ass, incompetent TOC soldiers to those of us who have put our lives on the line for our country. I am 30 years old and weigh 255 pounds and can out push and out run soldiers much "thinner" and younger than I am. The true measurement of a soldier's abilities should be that of their heart. I have had soldiers who score 320's on the extended scale for APFT and they lack the heart required to succeed and usually end up getting some ne hurt or killed in combat. This responsibility shouldbe places on the NCO core. As of late the Army requires a letter of recommendation from your section chief or supervisor stating that you contribute and are a needed member of the team in order to be retained during your reenlistment. The Army needs to encourage physical fitness not physical appearance. If you were to ask any of my colleagues, they would tell you that if wounded in a fire fight, they would rather have me there to pull them out than the 135 lb super soldier who runs a 12 minute 2 mile and max's his push ups but can't carry a "normal" sized soldier in full battle rattle even thought both of their life's depend on it. You must have been a poor commander to not see the difference. It's too bad that more officers like you aren't "former". God forbid I ever go down in battle because people like you got rid of the only people who could have saved my life.

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    6. I agree. Its toxic leadership like the "former officer" who would rather look good while losing than look bad while winning. "Hey does that truck work?" "No, but look how clean and shiny it is!"

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    7. I also agree. The fast that a Former Officer can call use the term free ride after 23 years says a lot. Officers like that are the ones that are full of themselves and think they won the battle and not their NCO's and Soldier. We lost the art of true leadership by knowing how to inspire others to accomplish the great instead they just toss orders. I once had a weight issue and had a commander that didn't care so I didn't care then I got a great Commander and next thing you know myself and most the unit loved PT and sometimes I would run 3 times a day. Yes his OER looked great when the company PT average went up from 249 to 282 but he earned it by knowing how to inspire to greatness. I don't think there is a NCO out there that wouldn't follow him to Combat. The fact someone can just say you didn't meet the standard so go tells me the Leadership is in question. true leaders look inside themselves first to figure out how the soldier ticks and finds that motivation. The Command should of informed him of his rights since they share part of the failure as well by not finding away to motivate. Yes I've had to recommend some of my soldiers for separation and yes in a way I failed to find away to motivate and get them on track. I own that, and learned from it and haven't had to recommend since(10 years).

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    8. All I have to say is no matter how much you love the Army, The Army does not love you back. The same loyally and dedication that the Arny expects from her soldiers when everything is all jacked up is not returned for the same defect in her soldiers. No one owes you anything, cut and dry. Meet the standard or get out. Its really that simple, no hard feeling, thank you for your service, good bye.

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  4. The funny thing i think is that the army says we stick by our ppl and look what they do. my wife is getting kicked out of chapter 18 and they havent been weighing her in on the same day and same time each month. its been different times and different days each month and they might skip a couple months in between and now they just read her the chapter. I think if you can pass a pt test you should be able to stay in the army no matter what. I think because i got out as a officer of the marines i will enlist in the army as a na officer and get into the unit my wife is in and make there lives a living hell!!!!!!!!!!!

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    1. I agree with u!

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    2. If your wife is being chaptered under Chapter 18, and the unit hasn't been adhering to proper weight monitoring practices as outlined in AR 600-9, your unit's legal section should be kicking back the paperwork. According to AR 600--9, overweight soldiers are required to be weighed/taped monthly until they come off the program. If they fail to meet set weight/body fat loss standards as set forth by medical personnel, or if they get back on the program within one year of getting off the program, they are eligible to be chaptered. The Army is in the process of putting out 100,000+ soldiers, many who have done nothing wrong other than missing the re-enlistment quota, so any deficiency will be met with zero compassion. They need us in times of war, and couldn't care less about us in times of relative peace.

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  5. I am two inches over in the tape and Im facing a chapter Ive never failed a pt test never been in trouble always worked hard, deployed and my command actually told me that my thanks for deployment is a weight chapter. I am proud of serving my country, but, truly disapointed in the military.

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  6. "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive veterans of early wars were treated and appreciated by our nation."

    - George Washington

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  7. i am actually glad that this has come across my husband. his two years in the army has been nothing but complete misery. my husband left his job of 120k/yr to this? he didn't like his job but at least they were paying for his pain. now he's miserable and we're poor. oh and he's injured, on profile, non deployable. however when they need the heavy stuff listed, who do they run to? but i guess i should be thankful, we were put through hell and we survived it as a family. he just got flagged and has to do the 6 months of fat work.. so excuse me while i go cook fattening delicious food for the next 6 months. =) so 6 months, then they recommend separation, then it happens asap? but what if they are injured on profile and qualify for disability?

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    1. Hi. I'm sorta going through the same thing. I have served for almost 9 years and am currently a SGT (P). I've deployed three times, and just recently returned from Afghanistan. I began having hip pain last October, and was given several temporary profile extensions. I wasn't sent home or even had the opportunity for an MRI until last week. I have never had UCMJ, a negative counseling or any adverse actions. I was battlefield promoted to SGT and had 748 promotion points. Squared away. But now that my injury has gotten me profiled against exercise (except walking), I cannot lose weight/body fat effectively to meet the standards set forth in AR 600-9. I am about to have my height/weight done for record next week. I'll fail it; I'm currently 9% over and about 30 lbs over. I'll be flagged, lose my promotable status and it will reflect on my NCOER that's due in February.

      I've looked in just about every regulation the Army has, and have enlisted the help of other NCOs to help me find some kind of loophole. There isn't any so far. I could see how all of what's about to happen to me would be justified if I was lacking discipline, but I'm not. I'm injured and the doctors here can't figure out what's wrong with me yet. So, I have to suffer and be treated like I'm a disgusting fat body. I've never failed at anything before and this is truly breaking me. I just hope that I can be fixed and that I can be granted a Medical Board. If they find me unfit for service, they can medically retire me or separate me. I'll gladly take it. There is life after the Army, and I hope I have the chance to find it. I hope your husband and your family can find some peace after this is all said and done.

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  8. Ok I just got done with trial defense services on fort bragg and they just told me that you can not get any discharge other then an "HONERABLE" discharge due to the fact the army can not make obesity a bad thing it's an eo thing

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    1. I'm here at Fort Bragg and their trying to kick me out to. I haven't attend one nutritional class.!

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  9. Everyone, let me give you a little horror story. Back in 96 I went into airborne school, took a tumble got hurt. I ended up going to AIT at Fort Gordon GA for SATCOM. Throughout AIT I attended sick call many times for issues related to the injuries received in Airborne. The AIT was 36 weeks long. I was placed on "profile" for not being able to do PT. I gained weight. I got put on the the First SGTs weight control program. I never paid close attention to my paperwork when the drills were doing the tape/weight/height. In week 35 the Captain decided to jerk me out of training and discharge me. 1 week from MOS completion. I spent 14 months of hard work in the Army trying to learn all I could and do what I could. I received a chapter 18 Honorable. About 6 years later my wife was looking at my paperwork. SEVERAL OF THE HEIGHTS HAD BEEN ENTERED INCORRECTLY! I am 5'6". 66 inches. One height entered was listed as 60 inches, another at 62 inches. It varied each time! Pay attention to your paperwork closely!!! This long afterward, I am sure I have no leg to stand on as far as fighting the gov for some sort of compensation. Dont let this happen to you.

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  10. As the Army draws down in size, this will be a popular chapter for the command to use. Make sure that you are doing everything you can to protect yourself and avoid this chapter.

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    1. I have a question, I'm in Kuwait and getting a ch.18. The paperwork is completely done and they are holding me up here for more than 2 weeks now with an unexpected return date because my battalion and my battalion alone "requires" an escort to the U.S. which they are not assigning me until enough others chapters are completed to return us as a group. The question is: Is the escort for a ch.18 even ligitimate? Can they order me an escort with no cause and if not who can I see about arguing this?

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    2. My husband is being chaptered out for being overweight and they would fudge with the numbers. He did lose weight went from 230 to 217 and was still going down..but for some reason..they took him off the fat boy program when he got to 219 but some how magically got fatter at 217 when they taped him? .........

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    3. IF STILL NEED HELP...EMAIL ME..
      COACHWIN2005725@YAHOO....ALL LOWER CASE LETTERS,,,,

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  11. My wife is at Ft Benning and recieving the same B/S chapter. She has been an asset to her unit, and has never failed to perform. She was like a previous reply, and was hurt in AIT, and has never really been off profile. She gained weight due to lack of PT, and time to visit gym. Because of OUR IDIOT PRESIDENT, she is being singled out by her 1st SGT, and given NO OPPORTUNITY to have herself heard by ANYONE in Authority. It truly is a sad state, when there are people begging to get out of the Army, and the want to throw out someone who truly wants to serve. I was told to write my Congressman,and post her story on Facebook. It will be seen by ALL of America. Pass it on!!!

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    1. How, pray tell, is this attributable to President Obama?

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    2. "Because of our idiot president"...seriously? The country is in debt due to out of control spending/low taxes from the last President(and yes, the current one also) and one way to at least attempt to curb spending is to draw down military. Would you prefer that Top kicks out someone functional (I sure the hell don't)?

      Something tells me that your wife had plenty of chances to change this situation, such as visiting the gym during her own time-including during a deployment (if she did deploy). As for nobody sticking up for her, well that sucks but is also telling in itself.

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  12. Look at 600-9. If one thing was not done right you can't get chaptered. Chapter 3-1 section b-1 says that you have to go to christian education sessions. When I was in Iraq I went to one. The regulation says sessions not session. I hope that saves my big behind.

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  13. 10 YEARS, 4 DEPLOYMENTS, AND IT IS ALL A MATTER OF 1%. I WAS ON THE PROGRAM WHEN WE FIRST DEPLOYED AND WHILE WE WERE THERE I LOST THE WEIGHT CAME INTO FLASHING ZERO'S AND I WAS TAKEN OFF THE FLAG WITH A PT SCORE OF 295. COME BACK GET TAPED AGAIN AND I AM 1% OVER LIMIT, FLAG STARTED AND CHAPTER PAPERWORK GOES UP. 3 DAYS LATER I AM TAPED AGAIN I AM 1% UNDER, 4 DAYS LATER SAME THING 1% UNDER, 3 DAYS AFTER THAT TAKE A PT TEST SCORE 279 AND TAPE IN AT 1% UNDER. CHAPTER PAPERWORK IS STILL GOING UP AND THE 1% UNDER DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING THE PT SCORE OF 279 DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. I AM NATURALLY A BIG PERSON, BUT I CAN STILL DO MY JOB AND MORE THAN JUST PASS THE PT TEST. I WAS PICKED BY THE COMMANDER TO BE HIS GUNNER, AFTER ALL THIS I AM NOT SURE THAT I EVEN CARE. THIS IS HOW THE ARMY IS GOING TO TREAT US BIG GUYS THAT DO MORE THAN JUST PASS THEN THE ARMY CAN HAVE THE LITTLE GUYS THAT JUST BEARLY MAKE IT EVERYWHERE THEY GO.

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    1. Dear anonymous my husband is in the same boat! Same exact thing. Its all a matter of 1%. Good grief : (

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    2. They cannot tape and start chapter paper work, by regulation, you must go through the proper steps and if they are doing these things without going through the proper steps, it sounds like some illegal documentation is going!! I am jsut saying check it out

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    3. My husband has always been bigger. Even as a small child!! He has never been fat. He has always done well on PT tests, and until recently he has been under the required weight/body fat standard. We were on leave for 2 weeks and he was out in the field a week after that. When we returned he was 1% over and his e-5 team leader threatened to chapter him out. I don't even believe he has the whole authority to do so. His team leader barely passes PT tests himself and is very thin. Just because you are thin does not mean you are fit. Sometimes I think favoritism has a part in these threats. My husband simply is not this team leader's favorite. He has a good reputation with everyone else except this guy. Very frustrating to me.....

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  14. are there any benefits for a discharge like this????
    or am i just going to get put out?
    i have served honorably and now my future is in the hands of a cpt with 7 years of service. i have served over 19 years total in reserve and active any advice will help. thanks

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    1. Hello, I got chapter 18 for being overweight in Jan 2011, I got half a years medical benefits, 2 years PX and Commissary Benefits and also depending on years served, i served 8, i got about $11k but minus bonus i received, and Honorable Discharge. I chose i wanted to stay in and receive a Admin Board. But the board ruled in the Army's favor.

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    2. I asked my reserve UA the same question about getting put out and was told after 15 years, i could medical discharge or get sent to irr. They have to let me retire with over 19 years of service. I would be glad to finish my last months on standby

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  15. US Army stationed in HawaiiFebruary 24, 2012 at 3:57 AM

    I just dont give a damn anymore either im naturally big but im 2% over i pass my pt test and know my job very well but im just big ohh well im sick of this BULLSHIT ARMY just send me home already stop telling me u are and just do it

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    1. i feel you bro..im on the same page as you are...naturally big, never met the weight standards, pass the pt test and know my job for 10 yrs and they decide to chapter me...im an island boy and im sick and tired of this...

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    2. I can understand where you're coming from. It's like they're saying that the most important thing ISN'T whether or not you can do a good job, it's whether you're a bit fluffy. It's like you give up trying, especially after they threaten it so long. Then, when you FINALLY decide you want to be in it for the long-haul, they rip the carpet out from under you and send you on your way without a care in the world. Lives me damned.

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    3. They love to threaten us, thinking that is incentive to pass weight and tape. I have seen soldier's beat their girlfriends, cheat in WLC and have patterns of misconduct. They are never flagged or disciplined. I have also seen pt test written in and forged height and weight for who they want to do it for.

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    4. I have seen all of the above, DUI's, rapes and substance abuse. They keep these jokers and punish the hard working and dedicated Soldiers. Just because someone has a 110 GT score, good at boards and PT doesn't make them a good leader. Unfortunately, there are alot of Sgt. but few NCO's. The Army has far worse infractions going on within the leadership than a Soldier who is overweight.

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    5. Couldn't have said it better myself. Husband just got read his chapter paperwork yesterday. His chain of command is the poorest excuse for leadership I have ever seen. The 1st SGT has stated it is his mission to chapter people out. I wonder how he and the commander sleep at night. The 1st SGT refuses to allow the soldier who is trained and certified to tape, weigh, and measure the soldiers and insists on completing the task himself. There are even differences even on the recorded height from month to month. He measures the gut with arms at the sides and bent so you can't stand at attention, and you never know whether one of the two scales used will be the one held together with duct tape or been banged down the stairs from where it is stored.

      He has almost 12 years of service. He is a goodNCO who knows and does his job, stands up for his soldiers when he sees this same thing being done to them(part of the problem I'm sure), deployed 3 times, been to Korea, maintains good conduct, passes PT tests and all because he is 2% over body fat.

      The military demands loyalty from these soldiers but in all reality the soldiers are nothing but a number. So sad

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  16. i have a question.. im bout to hit my 4 yr mark. i got injured thru the army and reinjured during deployment for my back.. i am currently in the last stage of medical treatment than the next step is MEB. my p.a. along with my back specialist both recommend i get out. but i am 2% over my tape test. my unit seems to be pusjhing that discharge alot quicker than my MEB will be hitting.. is there anything i can do??

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    1. Go Talk To IG!!!!!!

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    2. You won't receive involuntary separation pay until you have six years of active federal service. Regardless of whether or not they discharge you under Chapter 18, you will still receive VA disability payments if you are found to have a service-connected disability. It usually won't be much, since VA disability is computed differently than active duty retirement. Active duty retirement is computed as a percentage of 100% of your base pay, while VA disability is computed as a percentage of 50% of your base pay.

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  17. This overweight thing is retarded. One point i was considered a great soldier. Did everything asked and wanted everything the army could give me but when i tore my knee trying to improve my weakest pt test event the 2 mile run. nevermind that i could do 91 push ups and 89 sit ups but as i got bigger through the profile and was told by the doctor not to run anymore because i am starting to develop joint fusion in both knees i started failing tape but still maxing my pt test with the walking event. my work ethic NEVER changed but i wasnt as physically fit so i became a problem soldier and a hassel to my unit. yet there are NCOs that dont do a damn thing but score 300 and shoot expert so that makes them better soldiers than me. Army really needs to rethink how they judge soldiers. they are going to get rid of quality soldiers and keep shit.

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  18. After serving for 6 years and with no negative disiplinary actions against me will i be eligible for a severence pay if i get kicked out for being overweight?

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  19. I need adivce. My husband has been flagged for overweight since december 2010 ( yes you are reading this correctly). He never attended his doctor visits nor seen a nutritionist; denied acces to the gym to lose weight. Last year(7/2011) the packet was denied for not having sufficient information. Basically all the ducks NOT in a row. However my hubby was then flagged for seperation from the Army in winter 2011. To make this long story short, SGT Major removed the separation flag because he never gave permission for such actions (2/2012). Themn within the week my husband came down with orders to pcs. Now today 3/13/2012 he signed a counseling statement for flag of seperation for over weight. My question, is the Army capable of using an overweight packet that was started over a year and half ago? Secondly, my husband has not been weighed on a constant basis and many other protocols have not been follwed, but he has a packet. What are our best options to fight foul play? He was even denied his rights see the contents of the packet. My husband has lost ALL faith in the Army, but i refuse to give up. Anybody has suggestions?

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    1. You need to go to the IG's (Inspector Generals) office as well as JAG and let them fight this for you. If everything you say is accurate they will not be able to chapter him out. You can find the reg online as well. Dive into that and learn as much as you can about it so that you can fight it intelligently. Fight fire with fire. They want to use the reg to kick you out. Use the same reg to keep you in.

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    2. Easy answer no! go to Jag, Go to IG!

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  20. Well I been in the Army for 6 years and served with and along side of the best in the military. I was once part of the 3rd Ranger Battalion in Ft. Benning GA and never had any issue keeping up them and I still don't. However, I always been heavy weight but again the APFT isnt a problem and I never agreed with the Army weight standard because its so outdated. I went from SPC to SSG in less than one year but I'm still tagged as a bad soldier because I have a specific body type that doesn't comply with Army standard. Well I been on the weight control program for 6 months and haven't made progress so I'm counting on them chaptering me. I only received one Article 15 and I don't have a trend of misconduct so Honorable I'm sure of and if not the I will fight it every step of the way.

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  21. I am writing this letter to let people know what is been done to our soldiers. My husband an amazing soldier, that has an impeccable record, has not been able to meet the army weight standards which are ridiculous because everyone is built differently. My husband is a man that every time the army moves him he reinvents the nonexistent army supply office. He does his job with pride because he's serving his country. Always Always goes above and beyond, he works so very hard and everyone knows it, he's always on time, he's never broken anything because he's always careful, doesn't drink, doesn't or never has done drugs. He is an asset to the army a perfectly healthy soldier mentally and physically. Out runs most of them, and always passes his PT test and always does what he's told.
    After 14 years of service, four deployments, and all the time lost away from his children and his wife... the Army is kicking him out like a dog, out on the streets, In 45 days when most people have a year or so to plan the separation. We are going to lose our home, our children lives is going to be destroyed. Nobody offer to help him, not even once. As long as he was meeting all their deadlines working hard for the company and making all the higher up look good, they looked the other way.
    Sure they put him in a weight program. The program is a total joke. The army places a whole bunch of soldiers in a room and tell them what to eat and what not to eat, and they are suppose to do PT twice a day. Of course my husband almost never can, because of appointments for the army, tons of paper work, inspections, deadlines and everything else they throw at him which by the way he gets done. Also on top of all this he has CQ almost every week now. (CQ pull duty on guard 24hrs)
    I guess this is the thanks he gets for sacrificing so much.
    Is this the vision of Obama to make 100s of military families homeless?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mam Please do not blame the president. I understand your frustration, but make sure the paper work is correct, the correct steps were taken. Do not give up so easy and start throwing stones at our presiden, go to the IG and Jag,sometimes things are done that are not legal>

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  22. I have a question, my husband has 89 days left in the army before he ETS's and could be taking terminal leave in 19 days but they are now trying to chapter him for this? They have declined his terminal leave and has chose to push the chapter. Is there any way around this chapter do to his time left in the army?

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    Replies
    1. if ur husband is in for more than 6 years he can request his paper to send to a discharge board which mean they will desire if he stay and finish his time or get discharge and get pay

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  23. I have a question, my husband has 89 days left in the army before he ETS's and could be taking terminal leave in 19 days but they are now trying to chapter him for this? They have declined his terminal leave and has chose to push the chapter. Is there any way around this chapter do to his time left in the army?

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    Replies
    1. If they are trying to push a chapter for being overweight, there are steps that must be followed, Read AR-600-9, call IG and Jag, if they don't help there are outside lawyers who specialize in military law.

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  24. 5 yrs as an 11b, tore my shoulder in 2 places, when i arrived to my new unit i requested to get a profile b/c i had not gotten surgery yet, the primary PA, was not in and they neglected to tell me of a second pa that could give me a profile so i spent 4 days of smoking and a pt test, taped and weighed and put on the overweight program, AND THEN the PROFILE... im in danger of failing for the second month in a row and will be looking at the chapter 18... any guidence?

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    Replies
    1. The PA would have just given you Motrin and return to duty. Unless you have a xray or a real doctors signature they don't care. When you deploy if you ain't dieing your going on patrol get used to it.

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  25. 2 years 35series I made hight/wieght and tape but now I face discharge however, I was never sent to medical when I sent to medical when I was put on the army wieght contral program and never saw a nutritionist does that even make a difference? Nor was I properly counciled.

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    Replies
    1. yes it does. You have to have a medical exam and see the nutritionist or your chapter is invalid.

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  26. After 5 years - 2 deployments son fails to meet tape and told will be discharged. If he finally makes tape before discharge date or reduces will this prevent discharge? Also, since first day logged in a 5 11 and medical records reflect this, latest tape states 5 10 told previous records inaccurate. 25yr old shrinking, I don't think so.

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  27. When faced with discharge due to failure to meet tape does contacting your US Senator help or hinder. Unable to lose weight in Iraq last fall, since return wife, after just giving birth diagnosed with life threating medical condition. Soldier very desponded, shouldn't he have been offered counseling, nutritional advice before initiation of discharge (has not received paperwork yet), failed again today.

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  28. Not sure if any one can answer, but is the only requirement for AR 600-9 losing 3-8 lbs per month or does it include improvement in body fat percentage. I have been weighed but not taped in over 90 days. Oh yea, I have 16 3/4 years active duty and 3 deployments

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    Replies
    1. body fat percentage doesn't really matter per regulation but they are still reguired to do it per the same regulation due to the fact it states that if you meet the body fat standards you will beremoved off the program so you are being screwed

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  29. i just want out, even though i have over 15 years in, the corruption is horrible. I took to heart what my DS instilled in me, unfortunately, many of my comrades didnt

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  30. The Ch 18 seperation is a mixed bag of nuts for me. I think that if our nation is ever overtaken by another country or just completely collaspe historians will review us and the power to be as plain stupid. I often wonder how many of our nation honor winners could or would have met todays Army's standards. Think about it for a second, all the branches are reducing their forces base on appearances....freaking appearances...ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!!!!!...not on job performance or the ability to lead....but freaking appearance. Now, to be honest, as being a retired senior NCO with 27yrs to my credit I have seen it all. I have seen individuals use the CH 18 after they have finished their inital MOS training for greener pastors in the civilian world...sickening. While in Korea as a SSG I was playing in a unit level flag football game, I injured my knee(ACL Tear)after rehab I passed my first APFT after my injury but failed my tape. The road to recovery was hard, painful and tough...My advice to all is adjust, scarfice, monitor your what you eat and really do what you can. But, if the deal is done, you still got your brain...kick in that school option...

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  31. I was never counseled or told I was on weight control program can they start a chapter?

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    Replies
    1. no they can not they have to have in writing and put you on the overweight program and give you the opertunity to drop your weight

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  32. No, you have to be counseled, seen by a nutrionalist and given time. They cannot chapter you out for one failed tape AFTER being put on the program. You have to fail two consecutive tapes AFTER you are put on the program.

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  33. Im on order to PCS and i already started clearing post im on the Over Weight Program for the last couple of month i lost 3 pounds this month on the 16th of April i made weight of 3 pound lost but for some reason they say the scale was wrong but i wasn't aware of the re-weight on the 17th so on that one after eating the night before i gain 3 pound, but that i though was my last weight in cause i was clearing the company but on the 30th of April not even 30 days i get weight in again and i didnt make weight and now they trying to chapter me cause i though i had my weight for the month plus i final out on the 10th of May, but im on PCS order and im already 90% clear the post. So can i fight this...

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  34. If you are being discharged due to being overweight, do you still get Involuntary Sep. Pay?

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  35. My husband was told that he would be chaptered out due to overweight /not meeting Army Standards, he was told from the time the process starts it coul;d be about 30 days--let me back up a bit-- he was on the AWCP for 18 months always showing same or improved he finally got off the program but after he met standard, he ended up gaining it all back.--so now they have said he will be chaptered which is correct its an automatic chapter if you dont meet standard within 6 months of getting off of the program. So we were told that 2 and a half months ago so he started the process of being hired as a government contractor. Now the company is ready for him very soon and my husbands commander has decided to let him stay in till his ETS date. We do not want this, what can we do? he has secured a new job making way more than the Army pays. we are okay with a chapter, he is not meeting standard it just feels like they are holding him because he is MI..any advice??

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  36. I need help! I was in the NJ Army National Guard and was wrongfully medically discharged and discriminated. I want to be reinstated back into the NJ Army National Guard and ETS on my ETS date of July 2013. 80%. I have been attending January, February, and March 2012 drill dates. I notice that I didn't get paid for March 3rd 2012 PHA' s and medical and I didn't get paid for March 9, 10, or 11th 2012 drill dates neither. I know I wad there because, I was issued a 9mm with rounds in the clip, I am a Corporal, so I was the NCOIC over the ammo detail. And I was the one who dispatched a duce and a half to go pick up ammo on Fort Dix. Not to mention, I signed for the ammo for the weekend, distributed out the ammo, and turned in the dunnage. So I texted my platoon sergeant to let her know I didn't get paid for March 3rd, 9-11th 2012 drill days. March 19, 2012 I get a phone call from a Master Sergeant telling at me, not talking to me, that the reason why I haven't got paid was because I was discharged. "WHAT!?" I asked her to explain because I didn't get any letters in the mail with discharge papers, no memo, no phone call, no nothing. She stayed telling at me so I went into defense mode as well and asked when was I discharged and for what. The Master Sergeant said That I was medically discharged December 31, 2011. She said, because I wrote that letter (explained earlier) was the reason why I got medically discharged. All kinds of red flags, bells, and whistles went off and i got upset because i depend on the Army National Guard to pay for my college, fund my Thrift Savings Plan, my kids are enrolled through TriCare, my SGLI and much more. Master Sergeant raved on that I have a service connection rating that I shouldn't be in any way. I explained to her that my compensation has been waived, and that my service connection is a catch 22. i didn't get counciled, neither was I briefed. Still to this date of May 21, 2012 I don't have any paperwork proving that I am medically discharged. So the next day March 20, 2012, I contacted IG. every week since March 20, 2012, I have been calling IG asking on my status of my discharge, and is it possible for me to get reinstated. The Master Sergeant at IG that has been my contact would just tell me, oh, my bad, I will see about it and give you a call back later on in the day. And every time he would ask me for my contact information. So now, I have been emailing him. May 15, 2012 I emailed the Master Sergeant of the IG, he replies back to me: "MSG... is TDY until May 21, 2012. I will talk to her when she returns. The MEDHOLD is your primary POC." MY next step is Bering in contact with Congress. Is it that easy to get medically discharge by me the soldier by writing a letter? I need help to get reinstated.

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  37. OK OK I HAVE A QUESTION OK I ETS IN JUNE 29TH BUT START TERMINAL LEAVE IN 19 DAYS AND THEY JUST PUT IN A FOR ME TO BE TERMINATED OR SEPERATED FROM THE MILITARY OR WILL I JUST ETS WITH REG HONORABLE DIS..... DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE PUSHED FORWARD ....?????

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  38. Do you know if I get chaptered for being overweight if my reenlistment code will be good enough so I can join another military branch? thx

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  39. Anyone know if the honorable disharge also applies to officers?

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  40. I am an officer with 28 years of commissioned service and right at 16 of active federal service (I was USAR/RPU/AGR and now am AC). I am having to go before the board b/c of weight. I would retire right now if I could get my retirement benefits. I've also had a number of medical issues, too - surgeries and now a chronic illness. My question is, if I am non-selected for retention, can I still get disability? What about my 16 years - does that not count for anything? When I see the number of officers where I work who are obviously overweight, it really upsets me - I feel like I'm being singled out. I have otherwise excellent OERs. This is very frustrating.

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  41. I have a question which I need answered.

    I have been in the army fir 4 years. I overworked my knees then injured my right knee in Korea. I then went to Ft Drum and Afghanistan injured, went to physical therapy (did not help) came back still went on physical therapy with same results. I was then given a permanent profile. I was flagged all this time due to a PT test failure and have always had issues with weight, but constantly worked on it. I got off flag, got promoted to SPC, went into the BEAR program and got DLI. I passed all tapes after promotion, but my knee got worse and I gained weight. On arriving to DLI, I was taped and put on the AWCP all within two weeks, and now 3 days after beginning AWCP I have injured myself. I can no longer put weight on my knee and have been given a 29 day no pt profile, but am still on the AWCP. At this point, I do not see myself performing to army standards and do not wish to waste the army's time. I also do not want to further injure myself. What are my options at this point? I need actual legal advice, not experience. I am unclear on the policies here. I will visit JAG and take all the right steps, but would truly appreciate any aid anyone can bring me. Please message me back! Thank you

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  42. I need help, my chain of command has PCS'd me knowing I've been on the AWCP for the last two years. Even through a deployment. I'm tired of fighting this battle and just want this to be over with so I can go on with my life. My new first Sgt is behind me and trying to help, but my new CSM is against it and wants me to sit around and try to see it through. Is there anything I can do to speed up this process of discharge?

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  43. hey little over 3 years left. 12 months in afghanistan. got flaged while deployed come back. Now they're trying kick me out with this BS chapter 18 with 1% over. Getting blood work done tomorrow and no nutrition classes done. No monthly counceling's done nothing. Just ready to get out anyways. i've read its a honorable discharge but do i get medical benifits and my GI bill still? still have 8 months left on my original contract

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  44. Is it possible to be chaptered with less than 60 days left until with order and less than 60 days left on ETS?

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  45. with 2 months left in the army and orders to ETS orders in hand my company has decided to do a 100% BMI test and are threatening a chapter what can I do?

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  46. Being chaptered under Ch.18 failed tape after the 90 days. Previously, placed on AWCP and then removed from the program after mking tape Oct 2010. I had surgry on my Shoulder December 7th 2011 and was on "dead man's" profile for 6 months and just got cleared on the 16th of August. I put on. Whole bunch of weight while on surgry recovery and it has been hard o lose in 90 days. Now I'm being chaptered what cn I do? Is there. Regulation that I can look at while being under medical profile that helps me from being chaptered?

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    Replies
    1. No, once you are released from the doctor's care, you are afforded 90 days and no longer to get back in shape enough to PASS the APFT and meet HT/WT.

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  47. My son suffered a knee injury while in Iraq, the medboard process was in full swing and he was ready for his dictation when his SSG back doored a chapter 18 and pulled his profile.He picked up his DD214 (Honorable discharge)on Aug 14th and has been waiting on a check for his leave hours that were sold back. He is registered to start school in 2 weeks in Florida and found out today that DFAS has kept his money for a re-enlistment bonus he received in 2009 while in Iraq. My son fought for this country and has a Wife and 3 young children the youngest only a month old and they are now homeless. What can we do about this?

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    Replies
    1. if your son was injured and was about to be medboarded but put on discharge for something else he can still go to the va and put in for a physical to apply for money for the injuries he recieved while in the service the va will pay him the percentage and if hes over 50% and has a wife and 3 kids he should at least get 1200 a month or he could start part time or at least 10 credit hours of schoo and get mgib there are many options for him to get off his feet.

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  48. Is there anything that can be done when you know a soldier is purposely gaining weight to get out? He just joined last year and graduated AIT this year, so now he's gaining weight to get out and take his skills to the civilian world. As a vet myself, I think it's disgusting and want to know if there is anyway to report it?

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  49. Army Officer with 19 years of service and just got out of the overweight program recently. I started a medication due depresssion and I gained weight however, the Army Doctor swears that the medicine doens not make gain weight and it is the depression that had make me get careless and gained the weight...., the company commander wants to separate me out of the Army and really there is nothing I can do jut to loose the weight.

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  50. I just want to know how the dice are going to land. (single income family, many deployments) He spent an hour after work at the gym, ate different meals than the family, and was told daily he was a "bad soldier." He receives the highest marks on every other aspect and passes the PT scores easily. He will be separated, they refuse to acknowledge the medical reasons for his weight gain (documented by his provider), and he is required to pay back the entire $28K bonus because we only completed some of the years. Why, when he is a non-combat MOS, can they not let us finish the last two years in peace? He loyally does a six-figure job for pennies! Now he is treated like he is worthless, deprived of his income AND told he must repay the entire bonus even though he has started into the years we agreed to continue the torture of military life!

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    Replies
    1. The one piece of advise I can give...Go to JAG with the supporting documents that speak of the medical issues you claim he has been diagnosed.

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  51. 18 years of service; on the overweight program earlier this year, got off the program; taped last month and back on the program; discrepancies in the measurements/weight ratio; would like to know an approximate timeline for the chapter 18. After final nutrition class and medical exams, about how long will it take to go through HRC?

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  52. If I get sepearated for Chapter 18, will the Army still move my House Hold Goods to my home of record, or will they try to leave me stranded where I am at?

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    Replies
    1. The Army has the responsibility to move you and your family to your HOR.

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  53. Im flagged now for being over weight and show no progress of lossing weight but nothing is being done. So i geuss im in a good spot.

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    1. Shot its really not a by the book system its how the coc feels or if they like you or not. Really it is. I should have been out long ago but ive never been the one to mess up im just fat. Well 5'11 and 220 with a gut but i pass the pt test. I wish they would kick me out but til then i just try to make the best of things.

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  54. I am in the national guard, and was taped at 4% over. If I do not meet the 3 lb minimum which is required to show progress by next month, then I am sure my command will be moving toward some action. What will that be? I have completed my first 6 yrs in, and have had to back surgeries. I am presently on a strict profile now, so what does a soldier do and what does my command do?

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  55. I filed for an unqualified resignation from active duty, but my chain of command did not send my resignation paperwork to HRC (Human Resource Command). Instead they sent a referred OER stating that I am on the Army Weight Control Program for the second time in two years. I will likely get chaptered out because of this. My question is-at 4 years in the Army what benefits can I expect if I get fired? What benefits can I expect if I resign?

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  56. SGT V, 10TH MOUNTAIN DIVISION

    YOU CHOSE THE ARMY THE ARMY DIDNT CHOOSE YOU. THE ARMY HAS RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR HEIGHT AND WEIGHT STANDARDS. IF YOU HAVE AN INJURY YOU STILL HAVE TO MEET STANDARDS. IM PRETTY SURE IF CONTESTANTS ON BIGGEST LOSER CAN LOSE WEIGHT THAN YOU FAT BASTARDS CAN.I GUESS YOU GUYS SHOULD REQUEST TO BE ON THAT SHOW SINCE YOU WONT HAVE A JOB.THERE ARE GYMS THAT ARE OPEN 24 HOURS A DAY. ITS CALLED BEING A PROFESSIONAL. PT HOURS ARE NOT 0700- 0800 OR WHAT HAVE YOU. IF YOU HAVE 20 YRS OF SERVICE I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE BUT THE MILITARY NO LONGER NEEDS YOUR SERVICE. UPS IS HIRING

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    Replies
    1. Wow. Classy. Not. Get over yourself "SGT".

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  57. It has nothing to do with overweight, but they try'n to chapter my husband out for a fight he was present but wasn't a part of. a bunch of drunks we was just there wrong time wrong place...16years in the military just gone...can they do that? we havent seen a police report and they denied my sworn statement as a eyewitnes.

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  58. I am a producer with the TODAY Show, NBC News and we are working on a story about obesity and the Army, if you were rejected for your weight or dismissed please contact me asap at Rachel.Delima@nbcuni.com or our Miami NBC News Bureau 305-379-6920, we are looking to interview today to air on tomorrow's show, thank you!
    Rachel de Lima

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  59. Ive been getting chaptered since October My Chain Of Comand Has Been Holding My Chapterwork For Their Covinience and was told I was going to be on white cell from January To Febuary at NTC And I Was Told That Myself And Other Soldiers Getting Chaptered Are Also Going Because They Need The "Man Power" And Today I Found Out Their Trying To Make Me Be A Driver And Take Me Off White Cell Not Only Do I Feel Discriminated Against And Singeled Out For Being The Only Guy Their Chaptering And Making Go On Missions But There Going To Kick Me Out Right After When It's Convinient For Them Is There Anything I Can Do Please Help

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  60. Its very unfortunate that most of you feel the way you do about be chaptered out of the military for not meeting the weight standards. The real unfortunate thing is that you did not meet the standards. The weight program gives more than enough time for you to make the requirement and if you fail to meet that standard in the alloted time, then I feel like you should be chaptered out. I do not see the arguement. Especialy, since the weight standard has changed. If youy enlisted prior to the change the standards were extremely strict, you were required to be allot lighter than you are now. Yes, I had a P3 profile, was only allowed to walk the PT test, but that is not an excuse to gain weight. If you couldn't run, speed walk, ride a bike, whatever you needed to to make weight. There are way too many options in the gym to use, rather than running, back away from the table, eat better. i mean come on, the excuses that people are using is absolutely ridicilous. As for the senior enlisted, please I know you guys know bette. You were suppose to be an inspiration to the new solidiers and you guys failing. I am personally glad the military to chaptering over weight sildiers out. If you do not have the disipline to watch what you eat, then you should go home. If it meant that much to you, you would have passed the weight requirements.

    I would also like to say that the over weight program is approximately 12 months, as long as, you are losing weight, they will work with you. Obviously you guys were not losing and they chaptered you out. There may be ONE REAL EXCEPTION to failing the program, unfortunately, I cannot think of one.

    YES, I have been taped, almost every weigh in. I never failed, never came close. The excuses are probably why your chaptered. A soldier who takes responsiibility for their short coming, is the soldier that the unit will fight to keep. THINK ABOUT IT.

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  61. This is pure bullshit! My family has served proudly in the Navy, Army Air Corp, Army, and Air Force for three generations. I can only speak for myself, but my service in Nam. My concerns weren't how heavy my Brothers were. I rather have a Brother in my bunk that would stay in the fight rather than be fit enough to run from the fight. Wieght/body fat doesn't measure the Bravery of a Soldier. The Military should clean house on pencil pushing personal that have nothing better to do than hit the gym and think up stupid Artical about a soldiers body fat. Nobody was complaining about my son's body fat when he was fighting in that shit hole Assgainastain.

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  62. Ok I need some help here. I'm facing this chapter right now. I failed tape back on Oct 30. I been challenging the tape because I do not believe the person taped me correctely. (To loose in the hips). This was the 2nd time in less than 12 months I failed. I got off the program back in May. Long story short I had a hystorectomy and wasn't on hormones which caused some weight issues. But, it's hard to prove that the lack of hormones was the issue so it doesn't help me. I have not done the medical portion yet for this fail. I was flagged 11 Dec and scheduled for phase 1 & 2 physicals without even being told my chapter had been initiated. I found out because I had called the appointment line about another appointment. The day of my physicals 2 Jan, my commander tells me I will counseling you this afternoon after your appointments. My medical appointment for this is 29 Jan. So as of now the paperwork is on hold. I have been taped again since all this happened and I am 2% under and 3lbs from making my target weight. Do I have any grounds to stop any of this? Does the fact I am now compliant help me any at all? I've been in for 8 years and do not want to get out. I love what I do. Please anything that can help would be greatly appreciated.

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    Replies
    1. I would go to IG and fight this all you can. This Commander did not follow procure. I would fight the tape person as well. Those people are following Commander order.

      Delete
    2. I agree with 'AnonymousJanuary 28, 2013 at 4:01 PM'. However, you are not in a position to challenge the validity of a tape because it was not done to your liking (tight enough). The tape test, in itself, is subjective. If there was a tape used, aregulation present, and 2-3 other people to witness it, the tape stands. The procedural errors made in the chapter process can be challenged. Good luck to you, and if you are allowed to stay, never put youself in this position again with out a medical reason.

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  63. I have been on the overweight program for over a year now and i have made progress over that time period, however, these last 3 months i have not made any progress. i know by regs my unit should have started the chapter paperwork. I am due to ets in april, however i am scheduled to get weighed in this week and i was wondering if it is still possible to get a chapter 18 even though i have less that 90days left on my contract?

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  64. Im seriously thinking about the army and being a rn in there but i am overweight something i have struggled with my whole life and if that stops me from my dreams there its their loss not mine because i think with a little force behind my will to believe i can lose weight.. it would happen... but who knows especially if they deny me!!!!!

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  65. i hate to say it, but with all the bs going on, and my lack of good leaders (my own commander is a walking EO case waiting to happen), i hope they chapter me out. i just failed my pt test and weigh in for the first time on both. yea, i am dissapointed in myself and take full responsibility for my (lack of) actions -- although i think i have been exercising more than i ever have, there was something i wasn't doing right.. but anyway, deep down i am over the army bullcrap. i will work hard to get the flag removed, but deep down, i don't even care anymore. when the army starts training real leaders again, and cleans up it's act a bit more, maybe i will care a bit more. for now - i'll take the honorable discharge and take my happy fat ass home. maybe i can still save my gay marriage.

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  66. It happened to me in 95 and i was like good riddens. I was 6'5 265 passed every Pt test but had a small neck. So after awile I was tired of the BS. I was a 13 Bravo Gulf War Vet. Good Luck Humping the rounds with a little skinny guy.

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  67. I had a flag removed on me due to weight control less than a year ago and then was put back on. Is that a bar to re-enlistment or will I be chaptered if I fail to lose the weight again?

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  68. Fail an APFT or Weight and they will move quickly to separate you.

    Fail at the range or be horrible at your job, and you get to stay.

    I'm not saying the APFT or Weight standards should be ignored, but the Army needs to apply some common sense.

    It's crazy how fit and dumb soldiers are prioritized over intelligent and out of shape soldiers. It's 2013, and someone needs to realize that being intelligent is AT LEAST just as important.

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  69. Be a fit dummy and you are good.

    Be out of shape and intelligent and you are out.

    Someone must begin to realize that it's 2013 and we need intelligent AND fit people.

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  70. Can you waive the wieght controll program and just asked to be chaptered?

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  71. I feel you all and appreciate all your comments on this. I don't know what the military is coming to now, they use you up then wash their hands with you in a second. I was told that I had two option on my plate just recently. 1- get chaptered out or 2 submit my retirement packet and this is because of the unit or overall battalion stats. I have 19 plus years in and will be 20 in about 3-5 months. I have been on the program now for a while, but have never been to a Nutrienist, or any medical screening, but have also recieve a 4/4 on my NCOER because of this. Even though my job and performance speaks for itself in my profession. I have never missed a movement, always supported the unit in every mission, never fail a mission or task given,never failed a PT test but still this is what the command believes in me to be warranted as a 4/4 because of overweight. I have no cartlidge left in my ankle making it very hard to walk on so I'm unable to run. I walk still to try to stay fit. Can someone please tell me how can I be offered two options as these when they have never taken the proper steps to build me back up to meet the so called Army weight standards, and how can they be one set standard for different races with in the service. we are all built different so something got to give or change and I believe it should be the Weight and Height standards across the board. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK????/

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  72. been in for 6 years 7 this july and they are trying to chapter me cause iam 1% over nevermind the fact that iam under immense stress such as my dad recently passing away going through a divorce with a cheating ass wife and being kicked out of my own home ( due to her even though she is allowed to go down to the barracks and do whatever she wants) but oh no a knowledgable soldier who is more than willing to bust his ass constantly and 1% due to stress and i gotsta go ok i see how it is in this army iam tired of the shennanigans anyway gimme my severance package and my dd 214 ill go ahead and join the local police dept and pull everyone of them a holes over and give them a pinkslip too >:)

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  73. Can i be denied opportunity leave cause Im getting chapter-ed out on over weight ?

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  74. Just wondering how long the process took for being Chaptered out under a Chapter 18. Also wondering if they military will move you? How does that work?
    Thanks

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  75. If you are not helping you are hurting and If you are a leader and can only punish but never reward than who are you leading??? and who are you really rewarding. I will leave this great organization one day and I want to be able to tell my young one day and any other person off spring what a great thing to be a part of, at this rate i hardly see leaders i see individuals that don't stand up. everyone line up to read on something to hurt a soldier, but rarely do you see any leader reading up on ways to help you. the military can never be run by one kind of anything, today big people, tomorrow tall people, next week short people, next month single parents,the month after no females. you plan out your 20 yr career that is all you should do and make room for the next generation if you are 20 or more years you should be willing to always offer your expertise to your nation. if unless it is criminal that you don't get there think off what that person could have done with their life they decided to serve and now must start all over hurt, broken ill etc, and as great leaders you want to push them away without giving them what they deserve. I see people fall short everyday in the military and not from weight but they don't be made fun of or get kicked out. the break regulations everyday but if the soldier is over weight they follow that chapter to the last word on the last page before the last period. the regulation work for who ever is in charge they say honor a profile don't break it and everyone and commanders must adhere to it in the regulations and yet they can make you break it and say outside the regulation that it is just the doc asking the commander to honor it does not mean they have to. DOUBLE STANDARDS TO WHOM THEY WANT IT TO APPLY. I WISH THAT I KNEW THEN 14 YEARS AGO AS TO WHAT I KNOW TODAY. i would have waited for a draft first before i would choose a gain to be treated with no respect by the men and women you serve under...thank you.

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  76. I am an E-5 and have a soldier who was flagged for busting tape prior to me getting him. The back story is that the soldier injured his back which resulted in weight gain. Once he was able to PT again he did so. He lost roughly 100 lbs and even went as far to have surgery to have the excess skin removed. When he was taped I do not know because the leaders before me were horrible. A flag was initiated in January 2013. The soldier was never counseled, never informed by the commander that he was overweight and was never enrolled in the AWCP. Due to his injury he can no longer serve in the Infantry but would have the option to medically reclass if he was not flagged. I am currently working with the soldier to make weight and tape the HEALTHY way and am monitoring his progress. I have had him taped twice since becoming his squad leader. The first time he was over by 3% and the second by 1%. I am being advised that the 1SG is trying to give the boot to anyone who doesn't make tape, which I understand can not be done unless the proper steps were taken according to AR 600-9.

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  77. hi have a question i have 7 years and 3 deployments have a perment for my left knee and have been to mental health and said i am not fit for duty my unit is going thought withg a chapter for overweight and had a admin borad where they said to chaapter me out can my unit keep going with the chapter

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  78. can they take your rank during a chapter 18

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    1. No, unless you do something worthy of getting your rank taken

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  79. It's funny to listen to "former officers" talk about how they enforce the standards. Most officers I have spoken with talk about doing the right thing all the time, yet when it comes to anything that makes them look bad or may potential hurt their image as a Commander, they suddenly don't want to do it. Such as regulations requiring reported violations to be sent higher, arms room fails inspections looks bad on a Commander, yet enlisted are told to keep it quiet. Or if a Commander who doesn't follow the steps to properly chapter someone out, suddenly paperwork that was never there or never done right suddenly appears. Toxic leadership is one of the biggest problems in the military. Persons who study guides and questions to pass boards are often the same people who aren't doing anything in their shops, or know how to do their jobs. Instead, they are the ones promoted than delegate tasks to lower personnel all the while having no idea how to do it themselves. This drawdown will be one of the biggest mistakes our military has done in years to come. Because eventually the funding that allows personnel to be recruited will get cut leaving the army with incompetent leaders and soldiers who are scared to make decisions as leaders threaten dishonorable discharges for the smallest mistakes. When a MAJ tries to lie and conceal real risks to the entire Command that is when you know there is a problem with leadership. CPT's, MAJ's, CSM's, SFC's, SSG's, are suppose to be a role model to look to, yet when you look up and see something worse than you are now than the logical conclusion is to get out before someone higher finds a reason to kick you out. If you follow the regulations, your more likely to get slapped with UCMJ or Article 15 for disrespect or failure to obey orders. While you can fight them, I have seem 9/10 actually stick regardless if you win. The mentality to just do what your told is still here, and when shit hits the fan leadership do not take accountability they look to pass the blame down as far as possible.

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  80. so under a chapter 18 is it a honorable discharge, or a general under honorable conditions? nobody has been really clear about it

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  81. im currently getting chaptered for the same thing. as far as its going now its an honorable depending on how your term has been. if you were a bad soldier most likely you will get general under honorable... im currently trying to fight to get into national guard instead of IRR. DOES ANYONE HAVE INFO ON THAT?

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  82. Problem: Overweight since April 2013. Re-entered program and failed to lose weight in 90 days. I failed tape in August, Sept, October. I've been in for several years (more than 6). I accept responsibility and realize that I am not doing well and that this is my fault. So the paperwork was delayed and Command did not follow procedure. Legal came back and indicated that they needed paperwork from when I was on the program years ago, but the previous unit does not have it. My old Company Commander is willing to write a MFR, but legal will not accept this. I serve no purpose and have landed employment in another state and now I am being told that I may have to wait until April. I have applied to every place that I am skilled in and may lose my ability to land a job. What can I do to make legal see that I have no issues with the discharge. I've accepted it and I now have plans to work as a civilian.

    I was told October 2013 I was going to be separated. In November I was made to turn in all of my gear. In December I got taskers outside when I turned in all my cold weather gear (Located in Northeast). I was taken off all my primary work duties and was no longer allowed to work in my MOS. My supervisors indicated I was going to be out of here by mid January.

    Problem: I am still at my unit waiting for orders to outprocess and start my life as a civilian.

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  83. My daughter's ,height was measured wrong she was @ the 1/2" mark and the NCO who measured her measured down; which made her weight & BMI wrong. After she looked up the regulation she knew she should have been measured up to the next inch. My daughter was put on the weight control program from Jun 2013 - Sept 2013. she was only weighed in July and not again until Sept 2013, never taped in this time period.. (She thought protocol was once a month) in Sept she passed and was taken off the program. Now it is Jan 2014, she passed the PT on a walk profile but, she missed the wght by being 1 lb over & 1% BMI. She received the negative counseling, but never received any paperwork from the commander regarding Ch. 18 which she told she was receiving. When she & her NCO went to JAG they have not even heard of her separation. It has been close to a 3 1/2 weeks now. When the NCO asked my daughter's 1st sgt who initiated the chapter paperwork she says they must have it; there is no such paperwork to be found. What should she do??

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  84. I am currently in the military I am being chaptered out (18). I failed the weight and the tape test 2x within 6 months. When weighted the following week I had lost 4 lbs. is there anything I can do now. Please let me know

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  85. We recently had a brigade commander visit our reserve company and give a speech on this very topic. He literally stood up in front of us and said that he can tell a good soldier by simply looking to see if he is a go on APFT and Height/Weight. SMH. Listen I've been in the reserves for over 12 years and I can tell you that if you are judging the worth of an individual soldier soley on this, you are a fool. Their are plenty of worthless soldiers that happen to be PT studs. That being said this is the Military and you should be attempting to maintain your fitness. Everytime we deployed as soon as you got everyone on a PT regimen and out of civilian life, just like our active duty counter parts, everyone was meeting the standard pretty quickly. Unfortunately they dont have the luxury of PT being built into their paid work day. They are kicking you out for this now, especially since Iraq/Afghanistan are winding down so you need to take some personal initiative to stay in shape. There is no excuse for severe obesity.

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  86. I had a Soldier that went through a Chapter 13 last year. He was separated on 31 Dec 2013. He received a honorable discharged even though the commander wanted to recommend a dishonorable discharge. I was at the legal office at Fort Jackson when I had to call and ask him what type of Chapter he wanted to recommend. We didn't realize that the only option was Honorable for this Chapter unless the Soldier committed another offense in conjunction with this which would make it a different chapter altogether. From Jan 2013 till about Apr the soldier was weighed and did not show progress. Finally around May he was notified by the Company Cdr that he was being recommended for separation. The Soldier had serveral things he had to do on his on which in my opinion determines how soon you will be discharged. He had to do a Part 1 and 2 physical. YOU are responsible for making those appointments. He also had to get a mental eval. Then if you have other medical issues those should be address before you do anything. My Soldier had sleep apnea, a fractured hand, and bad knees so he had a few appointments concerning those first. Once he had all the documents from the Part 1 and 2, and mental health evaluation. His packet (I had to make two copies) was then given to me (the 1st line supervisor) to take over to separations around Dec 3. He met me there and was able to tell the clerk what day he wanted to be out of the Army. Also, he informed her on what he wanted to do concerning his leave, whether he would sell or take it. He took it before Dec. so he was good to go. On 13 Dec I had his orders for him to start clearing. His last day was Dec 31 2013. Also he received severance pay because he had just made it over six years. Under six years there is no pay. Also i just found out today that if you have over 18 years you can be separated but the approving authority for that action is HRC.

    I hope this helps.

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  87. My command is trying to do this to me. I have only been in the Army for three years. Do I still get an Honorable discharge? And what benefits do I get to keep? Like money for school.

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  88. I am looking at getting my 3rd overweight flag within 3 years what is the likely hood that I will be chaptered?

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  89. I need help on this new policy..... for the first time in my years in the army I failed tape. But I scored a 275 on APFT which is my lowest score. I had to get a profile because now I have to do my phase 2 for chapter.(I did get to get a run at own pace and distance which to me is the same as just go and run and improve at running) I was told by my 1sgt that this is the new policy and that if I fail the next one I'm out just like that. I don't want to leave my army career I love what I do I don't want to abandon my army or my country like this. I know I will pass the next one but I need help to see all this is about. I just think its because i'm no longer airborne and they don't understand it takes only one bad jump to make a good knee an old used up has been. thank you for your time AATW

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  90. I'm up for Chpt 18 as well....The funny part is.... I'm happy about it btw i took a post pt test for school...passed that but they said my bf% was 6 over....my unit overweight nco tapes me (along with my 1sg) and I'm 2% under...same day btw...so my school is deferred 5 months go by 27 lbs lighter the past another pt test but post still tapes me as overweight at 2% over my overweight nco tapes me again....5% under haha hahahahaha I'm done my 1sg wants me gone basically says he's done dealing with me ain't that some shit.....o well I've been done for a minute anyway...The army is heading in a direction i want no part of anyway......

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  92. I understand standard. And standards. and meet the standard. and its what the standard is. BUT GUESS WHAT....Standards need to change. If we are letting all this other bull crap change, then this needs to also. I am tired of having to put out guys that live in the gym, make 300+ on the pt test, lead like they were born to lead, but bust tape. It is a stupid STANDARD and needs to go. Also so does our President, VP, Army Chief of Staff, SMA, and pretty much most officers that are not 2lt or 1lt. For you Captains and above, and even you E-7's through E-9's. Think back to how it was when you first came in....how when you said something it happened...there was not questions....Reset the army again, and go back to those days, before we end up speaking Russian, or some other language.

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